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Socrates Exchange: What is Forgiveness?
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  In our next installment of The Socrates Exchange we're asking the question: “What is forgiveness?” Can we truly forgive? What are the key features of forgiveness? Is forgiving always a virtue, or can it be a sign of weakness or lack of self-respect? Post your comments, then respond to others on this page. Guest
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We're very excited that the Socrates Exchange is opening its doors once again after a long summer off the project.
We think the question "What is Forgiveness?" is a great way to start this season of the Socrates Exchange.
For me the question of forgiveness is a complicated one. I think in order to begin to forgive others you first need to believe that we are all fallible as human beings. That we have all made mistakes and have all wronged others at times. I'm personally of the belief that in order to truly forgive others we need to first be able to forgive ourselves. The more we can look at ourselves in the mirror without reservation, the more we can look others in the eye and truely forgive them of their wrongdoings. To Thine Own Self Be True!
I've personally done some work on this. There have been times in my life where I've been wronged and could not get to the point of forgiveness, but I found the more I got in touch with my own failings and were first able to forgive myself for those, the more easy it was for me to forgive others... For me it wasn't something that happened overnight but slowly over time, but when it did it was remarkable.
I'd like to say that no matter how bad the infraction, I could forgive over time mainly because I found the less angry I am at them, the more in peace I am with the world…. I'm not perfect at this... not even close.
How about you... have you forgiven others? What does it take in order to do so? Is it OK not to forgive? Can you forgive someone if they are not sorry or don't apologize? Who is forgiveness for... you or the other person?
I think that it is important to speak to some of the misconceptions people may have about what it means to forgive.
If we are to forgive, it doesn't mean we should forget. Nor does it mean that we should excuse or minimize the offense committed against us. Naming a wrong is one of the first steps in the process that leads us toward forgiveness.
Forgiveness doesn't automatically mean that reconcilliation must follow. Forgiveness never means going back into an abusive or dangerous situation. You can forgive someone and not resume the relationship.
Untimately, forgiveness is a choice, the choice to release someone who wronged us from a moral debt. Each of us makes this choice for a variety of reasons.
For some, it is a way of moving on, letting go of the offender in memory, so that the pain is not relived over and over again.
For others, it is the realization that holding on to anger and the desire for revenge can be just as toxic and harmful as the original offense.
From a spiritual point of view, forgiveness is an obligation as well as a choice. For Christians it is an act of obedience to follow Christ's example. For Buddhists it is a pathway toward liberation and peace.
Forgiveness is complicated and complex. Although forgiveness is a choice, it is not something that comes instantaneously. It takes time because forgiveness is also a process. That process involves confronting a multitude of feelings, soul searching, and often a realignment of one's life.
It is also an attitude or belief, a belief that says the lack of forgiveness is a dead-end street. It calls us to look at what is required from each of us if we are to ever have a chance to make a better world, heal ourselves, or work toward a more peaceful co-existence.
I never need an apology to truly forgive. Perhaps the forgiveness may happen quicker, but it is always myself to whom I put all ownership for my souls salvation. Sometimes forgiveness is a long journey and a destination that may never be reached. But it is much better and indeed a necessary step one must take. In most cases situations present themselves to us so that we can learn more about who we are. I do my best to remember this in every relationship. "In you I see myself reflected." And there is where the real healing begins.
For me, just posting something here is an attempt at forgiveness, since I've asked Keith to leave blog comments on the Word of Mouth site, and until now, I've never commented on a Socrates Exchange question. So here's to forgiveness!
I think it's too simplistic to ask whether one should forgive or not forgive. I think forgiveness is a good end goal, but there are many steps along the way. To forgive someone who has committed an injustice against you, without them first indicating remorse for that injustice, only allows them to continue committing injustices without guilt. I think one needs to apologize before being forgiven. But apology isn't enough. Attempts need to be made to compensate the victim for any losses they may have incurred. I think those are the two major steps to forgiveness: apology and restitution.
I also think forgiveness is an important part of our emotional health. To carry with you the burden of anger and revenge is unhealthy and will hurt others as well. It's important to be at peace with the world, and accept that people make mistakes and don't always act in the interests of others. If you recognize that people (usually) want what's best for others, than you can learn to forgive them when they stray from that.
Forgiveness is an act done by the person who was offended. It is his or her responsibility to forgive someone who has wronged them, whether or not the offender chose to apologize. Forgiveness is something inside of a person. Although you might say "you are forgiven" with your mouth, doesn't mean that you forgive them in your heart. Forgiveness runs deeps into your mind and soul, and is truly a choice that you make for yourself. It is possible that someone might not choose to ask for your forgiveness, but still move away from the incident and along with there lives. Just because they didn't say sorry, should you not be able to move on with your life?
After reading the passage that you wrote I completely agree with what you had to say. When someone says "I forgive you" it does not necessarily mean that you are past what happened. I think that when you forgive someone you allow yourself to move on. The people that do not forgive are almost afraid to forget what happened. When the person who is offended can say "I forgive you" and mean in sincerely then they are letting themselves be open to the future.
Hi Rebekah:
Great post. I might believe on moral grounds that someone deserves my forgiveness, yet I cannot suppress my occasional sense of disappointment and anger years after I have reconciled with her. Does this mean that I have not forgiven her? Is is this too simple?
Time plays a big part in fully forgiving someone. Someone once said "forgive and forget" but just because you forgive someone doesn't mean the memories and the hurt felt were erased. Moving on with the relationship is the first step. Make some new memories, don't dwell on the old ones. Your brain is malleable and you are in control. The question is now, is it fair to say you fully forgave someone although you are debating on whether you are "over it" days or years later?
Forgiveness:
The one comment I would have on this subject is as follows: that when we forgive we do not forget the harm done us. To forgive we no longer express hatred or negative energy for the person who harmed us, but the event's memeory does endure in our consciousness. By which we may learn and grow from it, but the mere (and necessary) act of forgivness does not and indeed cannot erase the painful receollection
So then, if one is able to forget after forgiveness, is the act of forgiving really all that much of an act of good will since the individual did not have to exert themselves all that much to forgive? I would argue that any true forgiveness is where the person forgiving grows, and when it is most difficult to forgive.
Which is precisely my point: that we do not develop a memory loss even when we forgive, but rather choose to incorporate the remembered pain for a greater good, namely extending love and forgivness towards the other. So, then, yes, we do have to render a willed and mindful desicion, one which may or may not accord with our current emotional condition. I would also add, however, that such forgiveness may coincide with a certain diminution of painful memories, through the elapse of time, the concious effort to avoid overly rumminating on the past, etc. In my analysis (which certainly could be in error), I would say that just as we can forgive in spite of (and even because of) our remembered pain, we can also forgive even if those memeories have subsided. For forgiveness is not some mental/emotional gymnastics, but a conscious effort of the mind, heart and will.
I think this idea of "forgive and forget" has done more harm than good and ultimately gets in the way of our forgiving. There are events we simply will never forget. We can, however, with awareness, curiousity and intention alter their memory through forgiveness. For me, forgiveness has become more clear as I have explored the notion of memory and realized that our memories, however true they feel, are not necessarily accurate. They are also not static things, but move and change over time. With this awareness I find I can at least entertain or approach difficult forgiveness questions with curiosity. "How might my life be different if I could let go of this grudge, this resentment? What would my life feel like free of this old hurt and pain?" Forgiveness has very little to do with forgetting, but depends entirely on remembering. And in remembering old hurts in new ways pain is not necessarily incorporated but transcended.
I believe that forgive and forget isn't a good thing to do. People are going to remember what has happened, and just suppressing the past won't help.
Forgiveness is knowing that someone has realized that they have wronged you and realizing that it hurt you, and either by actions or verbally, showing you that they realized it. Knowing when your wrong and seeing that it effects another person is a skill, and it takes a while to learn.
Forgiving and forgetting won't help anything. A person should remember what happened in the past, but it doesn't mean that they bring it up at every conflict, and never let it go. A person should just realize that it happened, acknowledge it as the past, and move on.
You just brought up a really good point that I believe I had been considering but hadn't made it to forming it fully. Forgiveness is a "skill". It is one of many aspects of how we relate to each other that we improve upon with age (hopefully). It is constantly under revision, and that is why it is an interpersonal skill, like compromise, understanding, tolerance, communication etc.
With forgiveness forget is suppose to come. However, forgetting is a challenge. It is nearly impossible to completely erase an injustice from your mind. Forgiving is almost easy compared to forgetting. Does anyone really ever forget intentionally?
I think that although forgiving is not forgetting, in a way you are saying that you are over what has happened. No, you are not forgetting, but you are showing that if you were given the opportunity to erase what had happened, you would. By forgiving someone, you are willing to forget what happened and just move on.
As a basic thought ... forgiveness is a choice; a choice not to hold a person accountable for what s/he has done.
It doesn't automatically imply complete trust of the person. I'm not sure what term to use for such a change. "Restoration," perhaps?
But, is forgiveness a matter of the expression of trust? Of love? Of mutually beneficial understanding? Is forgiveness, then, a step toward a form of "retoration"? Are there degrees of forgiveness? What are they? Are they all truly forgiveness?
I agree with this forgiveness is a choice whether or not you wish to hold them accountable for the actions. Though I do not believe that you can fully forgive a person fully because it will take time to heal the breach in trust. Though you do not forgive someone at the time you say or show it over time you will forgive them.
Forgiveness is a choice - of acceptance. When one forgives, he/she accepts the wrong that has been done to him and accepts how to grow or learn from it. It does not mean to forget, because to forgive and forget would mean that one could not move on from the wronged act.
There is a difference between what might be and what may be. What can be already given might as well be taken, because there is no distinguishing them. But what once time may be is so unprecedented that the very order of time is breached.
If time is change there is no continuity between its before and its after, nor durastion to that change. If time is continuity there is no distinguishing its begining from its end. If time is either there is nothing once it is. Only what once time may be is so unprecendented the very order of time is breached.
What once time may be is neither prior to its event nor given thereafter. It is the unprecedented breach of duration and change which emancipates time from dimension either would be, and from the incomplete dimension each is through which the other is completed time. It is the breach of time through which person can dwell there. But for that unprecedence breaching the incomplete order of time duration alone and change alone is, time is person. What could be more forgiving and forgivable?
Forgiveness improves the happiness and health of both the injured and the injurer and mends relationships. It’s best to forgive when we can, and when we can’t, it’s best to keep trying. Harboring resentment only adds to the damage that’s already done.
Even if the offender feels no remorse, harboring resentment still mars your happiness and health.
Withholding forgiveness to make the offender feel bad is a type of vengefulness. People who are not vengeful are happier than those who are.
There are special cases, times when you cannot forgive, times when it is advisable but difficult, and times when it is inadvisable.
You cannot forgive harm done to someone else. That right belongs to the one who was harmed. If someone harms someone you love and this caused you pain, you can only forgive the pain it caused you, not the pain suffered by your loved one.
Ideally, to forgive is also to forget. Sometimes this is difficult. The offense may be too memorable because it was traumatic or because you have too good a memory. Ideally, you can use your creativity to reframe, to find some way to think about the incident so that you dissipate your negative feelings towards the person who hurt you. Then, even if the memory returns, you will be free of negative feelings about it.
Forgiving a wrong is one thing; forgiving an ongoing pattern of wrongs is different. To repeatedly forgive someone who will not change his or her behavior supports a pattern of bad behavior. This is rarely good for either party. If someone repeatedly harms you and asks forgiveness but will not make a commitment to stop the pattern of harming you, it may be best to forgive the past offenses but to take steps to avoid further harm from this person, including breaking off the relationship.
If you believe that the repeat offender is truly not capable of behaving differently and you do not want to end to relationship, you should try not to take the offenses personally.
I do not think that in order to forgive fully one has to forget. In most situations, it is almost impossible to forget. But the act of forgiveness is simply moving past the offense, pushing it to the back of one's mind so that it does not harm them later. Forgiveness is something that can be spoken or silent as well; it can be understood without being put into words.
Forgiveness is a gift to yourself. An inability to forgive and forget condemns one to being a prisoner of the past. One can never enjoy true mental health without the ability to forgive.
Is there a time when forgiveness ought to benefit another more than the self? Or are they one and the same?
Interesting exchange. Might the victim owe the offender forgiveness if she apologizes properly? Can the offender justifiably demand for the victim to forgive her in such circumstances, as if the tables in the moral economy have turned and the victim must now discharge her debt to the offender by conferring forgiveness? Should we understand forgiveness as a gift rather than as a means of cashing in on the work of apologizing? We can also restate this in terms of when we should “accept” an apology and whether we should think of accepting an apology as synonymous with forgiveness. Before we can begin to respond to this issue, we face the recurring problem of what sort of apology creates conditions for what sort of forgiveness. I wrote a book on this (I Was Wrong: The Meanings of Apologies), so this is close to my heart.
I’m thrilled for this topic but, I must admit, I am surprised by the premise of this particular question: “is forgiveness always a virtue or can it be a sign of weakness or lack of self respect?”
It's confusing, but, I thought weakness was the inability to defend oneself. If a person or country is weak (because they are literally smaller in size, in numbers, or in might; or weak in spirit and intellect) and they were (or are) being abused, than this called oppression and not forgiveness, isn't it? If a person IS strong enough to defend themselves but they don’t because they are too weak with fear than this is how the dictionary defines cowardice not forgiveness. And, the third kind of weakness is if a person is too morally weak to stop abuse because they fear it or they gain from those abuses -- politically, economically or otherwise -- surely this is not forgiveness but corruption, isn’t it?
A lack of self respect is when a person is unaware of their own potential and self worth (usually because this was fostered in them), therefore they make excuses for and accept abuse. But, this is victimization (whether conscious or not) and not forgiveness.
I understand that people in these troubling situations might use the word forgive: “I forgive him/her or that institution or political system for dominating me or abusing me,” but are they really using the right word here? When talking about weakness or a lack of self respect, if we replace the word “forgive” with the words “had to put up with” or the word “allow” doesn’t it seem closer to what actually occurred? If you hear a friend use the word forgive and you care about them, I think we should make sure they are using the correct word(s). People can continue to put up with or allow horrendous forms of abuse (physical, economic, political, emotional) by misusing the word forgiveness, but this is dangerous isn’t it? Thanks for the great show!
Whether you forgive or not depends on one question and one question only:
Would that person do that wrong to you again, if he were to start over? Was that person even sorry for what they did?
If the answer is yes, then forgiveness might provide you with a deceptive sense of self-comfort, but nothing more.
This is very true, I always think that there are certain circumstances that would decide whether or not you forgive. Only you really know the truth and if you should forgive or if the person deserves your forgiveness.
I agree with you only half the way, I do think that you need to ask yourself that, but forgiveness should also be something that's automatic. It is true that that is easier said than done, I even have trouble letting go of a grudge, but you have to just be the bigger person and offer forgiveness.
Forgiveness is an elusive concept. Sometimes it is easy to engage in forgiveness but at other times it seems nearly impossible. I believe that some of this must be related to the depth of the hurt experienced. When we are deeply wounded, the forgiveness path can seem long and arduous. We bring in inter-related concepts that serve to confuse forgiveness and cause us to have ambivalence. These have fed the myths and fears that sometimes stand in the way of forgiveness.
To forgive does not automatically erase accountability for a hurtful act. We can hold someone accountable and still forgive them. Forgiveness does not justify the harmful act. To forgive a rapist does not ever justify rape. To forgive someone that has harmed us does mean that we condone their hurtful action. No one has the right to harm us. To forgive someone that does us harm does not mean that trust is automatically restored. It may not be safe, or wise, for us to trust our offender(s). Trust is something that may require restoration when it is squandered and always thrives through cultivation. We can, in the end, forgive someone whom we do not trust.
I think that the greatest source of confusion has come from the oft repeated statements, Forgive and forget… Just let it go. For minor infractions of little consequence these statements serve as reasonable aspirations. But when the hurt is deep and raw these statements mock the gravity of what is at play. Would we expect to give that advice to someone being liberated from a concentration camp or someone seeking shelter from an abusive and assaultive partner? We must be sensitive to the awareness and the readiness of the one who lives with hurt or lingering resentment---including when we are the ones that may be at the center of the hurt.
There is much that sustains states of un-forgiveness: our wounded egos, our need to assess fault, a desire to exercise control and boundary, as well as other less noble reasons. We sometimes make it more complicated with conditional pre-requisites before we allow forgiveness to be called into play. Forgiveness need not be conditional on contrition or restitution by others. If it were, we could be trapped into suffering without end.
Forgiveness is about taking the steps to honor the self. The process can be painful, and progress slow. It may be peppered with doubt and equivocal conviction. But it seems to me to be a process that says, I acknowledge my pain and my hurt, but I desire to suffer no longer.
please allow me to correct a typo error in my posting above. I omitted a critical word. In the second paragraph the line should have read, "To forgive someone that has harmed us does NOT mean that we condone their hurtful action."
I've forgiven a hurt. I've said I've forgiven. The anger is gone. I rarely think about it, and never dwell on it. I don't want anything bad to happen to the transgressor. Yet, if a minor misfortune were to befall the forgiven, I know I would feel some schadenfreude. Have I forgiven?
I think that forgiveness and justice are two distinctly different concepts, and does not require justice as a precondition. To me then, forgiveness becomes the voluntary surrender of one's right to revenge or retribution. When I remind myself of this belief, forgiveness becomes much easier to achieve. It becomes a choice.
Yes, it's a choice, but in the end one must always ask why they are forgiving. Am I forgiving to ease the suffering of the transgressor (if, indeed, they forget the transgression) or am I forgiving so I may move on and let go of the transgression.
Is it any less virtuous to forgive if I'm doing it for my own well-being, rather than someone else's?
I would suggest that the forgiver benefits either way. The transgressor is let off the hook for retribution only. If the transgressor requests forgiveness, then restorative justice would come into play at that time. In the restoring comes the healing for the transgressor.
I'm not sure the forgiver benefits in a religion (some forms of Judaism) where it is required that the third time the transgressor asks for forgiveness, that one forgives. In such a case, the forgiveness comes not from the heart, or with the *true* intent to do good, but because it is required/expected/a religious/societal norm. I do beleive that intent, therefore, is so incredibly important.
Personally, I believe otherwise. I believe forgiveness and justice deals with each other. Justice is used to teach someone a lesson, and have them learn from it, while forgiveness can be used to teach someone a lesson also. However, I do agree forgiveness is a voluntary choice, which one mainly bases on things that have occurred in that one's personal life.
Many would agree that justice is a tool to teach someone a lesson. I would suggest that appeals for justice originated with a request for redress that would be enforced by a higher authority. To that end, it would have been intended to be restorative. It has become mostly punitive in its application, however. I would also suggest that few rehabilitative lessons are learned in prison.
Forgiveness is something that people feel the need to give whether out of pity for the wrong doer, or to receive a sense of peace. Many people also think that by forgiving they will feel better and be able to move on from a particular situation. But does forgiving really signal the end of trouble and a fresh start? It seems to me that the majority of people tend to keep the past events they have forgiven people for in mind when they interact with that person again. So forgiving doesn't always go hand in hand with forgetting.
To forgive one most also face the fact that humans aren't perfect and make mistakes. One can't expect to never disagree or need to forgive. However one can learn more about themselves and others when they see others taking the steps to forgive.
I don't feel forgiveness is a signal of weakness or lack of self respect. Sometimes one must forgive themselves for past decisions in order to become a better person. By forgiving yourself that indicates that you are mentally a STRONG person. You may regret some of the decisions that you have made but understand that you can make a change and forgive. I feel the people who don't forgive themselves are weak and can end up unhappy for not facing their wrongs and moving on.
Forgiveness is more than a virtue, its a skill, an art. You will never truthfully appreciate life if you can't master it. The difficult part is that you can never forget. As human beings we are prone to sin and evil, and that's a fault that we must respect in each other, but we must also defend ourselves from further wrong. There is a difference between forgiving someone and choosing to trust them. Take it from me, you can be on goods terms with someone whom you wouldn't dare loan a dollar. Forgiveness should be given freely, to liberate yourself, trust is what needs to be earned.
Can I forgive myself? This would mirror the possibilities of apologizing to myself in that it might make sense to speak of forgiving myself in some senses but not others. I may, for example, no longer experience self-loathing for previous mistakes, but it seems awkward to speak of restoring a relationship with a self from twenty years ago.
Forgiveness is not real. You can never truly forgive anyone and you will never really trust the person again. Although you can still like the person in question the realtionship is always tainted with hatered and doubt.
Response to Xake "Forgiveness is not real. You"
I must say that I truly disagree with your opinion on forgiveness. In what way is forgiveness not real? At times,I have forgiven without hesitation and have no feeling of hatred or doubt left in me with those that I have forgiven. Rather, I feel sorrow for those that continue to hold grudges with me for it is they who are at loss, but I must move on knowing that I have done my best.
I have been betrayed taken advantage of, yet I hold no everlasting grudges.I consider myself living proof that forgiveness is achievable.
There once was a young person who I was friend's with. We had lots of fun, we were co-workers at one point and most importantly we were friends. A series of events occured leading to the breakdown of our friendship. For a while I hated him, whenever we were near each other things tended to get really uncomfortable and tense.
Just recently, I had the uttermost feeling of contempt for the young person after a comment he made in my presence. I have now come to realize that by forgiving him and trying to mend our relationship I did all that was in my power. I have so far been unsuccessful, but while the young man in question holds a grudge against me, I will die with peace of mind knowing that I did what I could, and what more could a person ask for?
Forgiveness is necessary in all cases for one to live a happy life. The man that dies with no regrets and no grudges will have had a much more peaceful departure than the man who dies withered and lonely with no one to trust.
May you nor I end up dying like the latter, nor anyone else for that matter.
An excerpt from the most important book you will encounter in this life.
21 Then Peter came to Jesus and asked, "Lord, how many times shall I forgive my brother when he sins against me? Up to seven times?"
22 Jesus answered, "I tell you, not seven times, but seventy-seven times.
One more, for the record.
Matthew Verse 39
"You shall love your neighbor as yourself" (verse 39).
I don't understand how forgiveness is not real. If you don't have the ability to forgive, your going to have that tension or frustration towards that person and inside yourself. If you don't release that angry inside and forgive that person who once hurt you then it will start building up. My brother once distroyed my Barbies when I was little but do I still hate him? No, I don't, I forgave him and do I still feel "tainted with hatered and doubt," no because it was just Barbie dolls. Every person has forgiveness thrust upon them and you should forgive so you get get on with your life. I trust people who once hurt be because you can't let that anger boil up inside you. You can never forget but you can always forgive.
Forgiveness is real. You may not think that you are forgiving, but you really are. Acceptance is a form of forgiveness. Accepting something that happened means that you have to deal with it, and that may be in a form of forgiveness.
actually you don't know me so you would not know if I am forgiving or not.
The fact you say it's not real in my mind says more about you than it says about forgiveness. I don't mean that as a disparaging comment, either, simply that it shocks me to hear another human say they can never truly forgive someone. Incredibly sad.
Forgiveness is not something concrete, it is a act of self not an object. Forgiveness is not something you can ask for, or recieve if you do (ask for it), you can only give it. "Sorry" is not giving your forgiveness, its not what you say its what you do that redeems you.
In order to forgive you have to acknowledge what the problem is. Therefor you can decide what you as a person can and can not forgive. We will never forget the wrong's that are done to us, forgiveness is a compensation for the person you forgive as much as it is a release for you.
You cant forgive everything (although the world would be a much better place if one could) but it is important to get over what happened in the past so that we can live in the present.
I first heard the word 'forgiveness' when I was about five. My little sister had ripped out the pages of my favorite book and I was about as livid as a five year old can get, but after her forced apology my mom said that I had to "forgive" her. To me, forgiveness seemed a weak thing, something that signaled giving up and letting go. In a way it is, but perhaps it doesn't mean that you're weak. It took me a lot of energy to forgive her that day, and today forgiving people still does for me. I also wonder when people tell me that they forgive me, do they really mean it? I can never know for sure and that will always nag at my mind, but I think that if I can forgive myself for the thing that I've done then I can move on somewhat. Of course, forgiving myself is a lot easier to mention than to actually do.
l don't know if every wrong out there deserves to be forgiven, but what someone needs the most is to forgive themselves, whether they've wronged or been wronged. No matter how many times someone says that they've forgiven you you just can't let it go, not until you yourself can accept the fact that you've done wrong or been wronged can you actually move on. Over a decade later and I have forgiven my sister, she was about three and it wasn't completely intentional, while I liked to read the books she just liked to rip things, but even though I know all this, and I really do forgive her, the fact that I still think about it even now proves that although forgiveness is a powerful thing it will never completely erase the anger/hurt you felt after the wrong was committed. Or maybe that's just me.